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13th-Apr-2008 03:44 pm
Martha JONES-LAST BREATH
So, I've finally hit the nail about why I'm reluctant to watch season 4 of Doctor Who.



It's because so many people were way too accepting of Donna because she wasn't Martha (same thing happened with Rose-haters, they embraced Martha before she graced our screens, which wasn't fair).

I see Martha's faults, but I don't see what was so fucking hateable about her. So many people just seem to want to forget about S3, and I don't. I know I sound like a fucking hypocrite, I know I do, I'm not trying to, because I felt bad for the Rose-fans, and yet they knew way ahead of time that Rose/Billie was leaving. We had a proper time to say goodbye.

Not with Martha.

Fuck, I'm not making sense.

Okay.

I love that everyone is embracing Donna, it hurt to see so many people in fandom last year arguing about Rose vs. Martha (which was fucking ridiculous), so this year it's nice.

It hurts though that people weren't this excited last year, that I didn't see all this glee last year.

I didn't have this heavy feeling about watching last year, like I do this year.

*BLAH* I don't know what I'm saying. I ADORE Donna, she's fucking awesome. But, I guess, I keep catching S3 episodes on BBC America and Sci-Fi and I just keep remembering WHY I love Martha like I do, and having her turn up on Torchwood, knowing she's turning up again on DW (YAY!), it's making it hard to know that she's not really there, she's not the companion anymore.

I don't know, it was a terrible, terrible week, I feel miserable and while I love seeing people embrace Donna, it stings that so many never embraced Martha in that way or ever intended to like her.

At least I never hated Rose and I wasn't doing a jig when she left.

I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I'M GOING ON ABOUT.


So, this was probably completely pointless and I sound like I lost all sane thought and I'm probably gonna lock this later.


I will be watching the latest episode later, probably. Just saying, I haven't seen it yet, but I've read some of your reactions and I sort of can't wait to see the episode.
Comments 
13th-Apr-2008 09:37 pm (UTC)
[info]teh_gandu
*huggles confused you* People are stupid, haters are stupid and should be sporked, damnit! I'm staying away from DW comm's, because I do not want to know of any hate.

Really, unless a specific evil/mean/hateful character was created for the public to hate, then that's different, same with character that people love to hate, they were created to be hated.

But, I'll never understand the MJ hate. Rose, meh was waaaaaaay to much of a chav. I liked Rose, but, *shrugs* don't hate her, don't like, just in between.

Now, the fabulous Ms. Jones, I loved immediately ....

And, I am like a broken record, but, urg, what is it with fandoms and hating people who like more than one female character, or not liking their female character?
14th-Apr-2008 12:46 am (UTC)
[info]meganlynn09
*hugs back* I've been staying away from DW comms, just not enough!

I never hated Rose, but like you I never understand why the need to hate characters. Don't really get that.

Fandoms are total FAIL.

ETA: About the characters created to be hated - YES. While Martha was supposed to be seen as a replacement (I believe that's what RTD said), she was NOT created to be hated. So it's just not needed to dislike her as much as some do.

Edited at 2008-04-14 12:53 am (UTC)
14th-Apr-2008 07:34 pm (UTC)
[info]teh_gandu
People who just hate characters and cannot give any logically reason(s) as they why, are a waste of time.

I never hated Rose, but like you I never understand why the need to hate characters. Don't really get that.

Does any sane fan? :)
13th-Apr-2008 11:07 pm (UTC)
[info]frelling_tralk
You shouldn't let fandom put you off watching *hugs* The first episode I could take or leave, but the second is actually really good. The dynamic of the Donna talking to the Doctor properly about his actions actually reminds me a lot of the Doctor and Rose back in season 1. Later on it become Rose getting like a giggling schoolgirl over Ten, and Martha was all worshipful and "I believe in the Doctor, he will always save us" so quickly (I liked both characters, but they were both a little much around Ten at times IMO).

Donna and the Doctor together remind me so much of Rose and Nine just being about going out there and looking for adventure, not getting so wrapped up in the personal dynamics. It's working great for me so far, and Donna is just the sort of adult companion that Ten works best with. DT seems to play off older women better for me, he was great with Sarah-Jane and Queen Victoria too, and fun with Jackie...
14th-Apr-2008 12:51 am (UTC)
[info]meganlynn09
Well, I disagree about Martha, but I get your point.

I guess my point was more, it bugs me that people are more accepting of Donna than Martha because I think too many people saw Martha as "competition".

Going off on a tangent - so many people are saying that they hated the unrequited love story (which I get, what I don't get is hating Martha because of it, it was annoying at worst) and that Martha needed to get over it, and then turning around and saying they hope that Rose isn't over the Doctor and it seems to hypocritical of them. Oh Martha's so pitiful but let Rose be pining over the Doctor and not move on in her life.

GAH. Sorry, something that's been on my chest and I, unfortunately, chose you to unleash that on. Sorry. *hugs for that* :D

Anyway, I do like Donna, and I'm trying not to let fandom effect that, as I was able to enjoy "Partners in Crime".
14th-Apr-2008 11:09 am (UTC)
[info]frelling_tralk
I think what stood out for me with Martha was that she got a fantastic intro in S&J, then Gridlock sees her first response to an alien planet to be that the Doctor is rebounding her by taking her to a place that he had been with Rose. (And I meant worship in terms of insisting during her kidnap what a wonderful man the Doctor is, and she believes in him, when they had only just met. And then of course spreading his word by the end of the season)

Honestly Donna reminds me a lot of season 1 Rose's excitement at just getting to see all these new places. Taking a step into the past in TUD, and seeing the aliens from TEOTW for the first time. As well as keeping in mind that the Doctor is an alien and they're not there to mate, which also didn't occur to Rose until discovering the Doctor can dance :P Both season 1 Rose and Donna seemed to accept the invite out of excitement at escaping their dreary lifes, and finding something better out there in space and time. Whereas Martha already had a good life going for her at home, and Ten's invite of her played almost more like a seduction. So having Donna back now makes Doctor Who feel more about the sci fi experience for me as it was in season 1, rather than it does the younger characters romantic issues.

But yeah, I know what you mean about the shippers immediately accepting Donna because of unfair dislike of Martha. I've seen the other side too though, with some fans speaking really cruelly of Donna when Catherine Tate's casting was announced, and missing how much hotter Martha was etc. I think I must just be really fickle heh, because after season 2 Rose left, I immediately saw Martha as an upgrade. And er I'm kind of seeing Donna as the same right now after Martha and Rose. At the same time I am looking forward to both Martha and Rose's return a lot, so perhaps I'm just really easy at love the one you're with *g*

Nine and Ten was the time that I struggled the most with the show, and even then Ten did win me over completely in season 3...
14th-Apr-2008 04:59 pm (UTC)
[info]meganlynn09
*shrugs* We can't all feel the same :D

I'm letting all this get to me, when I really shouldn't. I adore Donna, and we're getting Martha back for a couple episodes (I'm honestly not looking forward to Rose's return, I've come to terms with that).

But Ten's tolerable this season (don't know about the Christmas episode, STILL haven't watched it), so I'm letting this get to me for no reason. :)

Damn, no Donna icon. Must fix that!
14th-Apr-2008 03:50 pm (UTC)
[info]noperfectlife
I don't know if I'm going to make sense, but it seems to me that season 3 sort of had to be the way it was, with Martha's crush on the Doctor and the Doctor being sort of a jerk because he was just getting over Rose. It could have been done without Martha's crush but then the transition would have never be done as well as it was.

And yet, to make Martha having that crush was bound to make fans hate her even more (I'm not speaking of those who would have hated her anyway just for the principle you know) but all those fans who hated her because of who she was and what she did. And it's unfair to her character but it makes so much sense in terms of storyline and it's just terrible.

I really enjoyed her. I can't say I was excited for season 3 as I was for the other seasons, but I immensely enjoyed her and it's too bad that fans just never realized how awesome she was and how useful in terms of the general plot wise she was. And even worse, how she changed throughout the show and became such a great character. I think her last scene and how she walks away from the doctor just sums up how great she was.

Fans had more than a year to get accostumed to Donna, PLUS, she was not the one coming after Rose, and that makes all the difference for lots. (That and a certain spoiler about you know who).

Don't know if it makes sense but just my two cents on all this, and yeah, Martha is awesome ;-)
14th-Apr-2008 04:54 pm (UTC)
[info]meganlynn09
I get what you're saying. I guess, like was mentioned above, unless the character is created to be hated, then why hate them?

Martha was NOT created to be hated. I, honestly, can't find anything to hate or even dislike about her. There are little traits, but overall, the character was a good one. Even if people thought she complained too much about the Doctor not seeing her (which she said ONCE to someone else and the other time she was alone) or put too much faith in the Doctor, how is that bad?

I feel people put faith in the Doctor WAY more than needed, but that's me.

*shrugs* I don't know.

I think I'm just sad because I was super excited for S3, not because I was happy that Rose was gone, but I was just excited to see the show changed. I was so disappointed in S2, I wanted to see a change and it looked so promising.

And if I'm honest? I really think you know who returning is putting a little bit of a damper on my excitement! And that really sucks because I honestly adore Donna, and we're getting more Martha.
14th-Apr-2008 10:41 pm (UTC)
[info]kammgirl
Ehhh I say just ignore fandom and enjoy. I didn't like Martha. I didn't feel she was a good character for many reasons and I feel that way separately from my love of Rose. She just didn't jell well and though the writing was good in S3, it was a disappointment because of the characterization. I was excited to have Martha on TW. I was all set to expand on the things I did like about her, but other then Reset her appearances were just lackluster to me and didn't really add to the episodes.

I don't hate Martha, but I don't agree that unless a character was created to be hated that they shouldn't be. These are fictional creations and like or dislike shouldn't have to be justified. I actually can state quite clearly why I dislike Martha. I can also point to times when I did enjoy her. Most of the time, I just feel indifference toward her. But that's me. I think it is just fine to dislike characters for no substantial reason, because there are certainly people in real life that all of us like or dislike without specific reasons.

I love Donna, I love what is coming up and I am just loving S4 so far. I don't think you should let that or anyone else's enjoyment or displeasure influence how you feel about the show.
14th-Apr-2008 10:59 pm (UTC)
[info]meganlynn09
Seeing as comments are talking about how people felt about Martha, goes to show how confusing I really was, as that wasn't my point with this post! heh

I don't really mind it, and I understand that there are people who had actual reasons they didn't like Martha. I mean, I won't pretend it doesn't bother me in the slightest, because I do disagree with you, I don't mind see other opinions from my f-list.

But this post was actually started to state that I have an irrational feeling towards watching S4, which I liked the first episode and I'll probably enjoy the second. But I don't feel half as excited as I did before S3, I'm usually excited to see changes on this show (as I was interested in seeing Ten as the new Doctor, and then meet the new companion), but now...it sucks that I'm not as I do like Donna.

I think it is just fine to dislike characters for no substantial reason, because there are certainly people in real life that all of us like or dislike without specific reasons.

Hmm...I don't want to say I disagree, but I've always felt I had reasons for not liking someone, fictional or not, so it feels weird to me when people say "Oh I don't know, just don't like him/her", that's just me and that's coming across into fandom. I mean, I get it, that there's sometimes just a feeling you get about someone, but eh.

Blah. Issues, man! I have them.
14th-Apr-2008 11:09 pm (UTC)
[info]kammgirl
Hugs you as my issues hug your issues.
14th-Apr-2008 11:48 pm (UTC)
[info]meganlynn09
*hugs back* Awww :D Heh
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